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	<title>Comments on: Paper, Plastic, Or Intelligence?</title>
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	<link>http://moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/</link>
	<description>Moonwolf's Cyberhome</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Moonwolf</title>
		<link>http://moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Moonwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Even sadder when people fall back on thinking it's got anything to do with "comfort level" - but then again, this is such an able-bodied world problem.

Ironically, I bet my mode of transportation is far more environmentally friendly than your "level of comfort" on a daily basis.  I'm 100% electric - how much are you paying for gas today? :P

It's easy for you to say things are "important" when they won't affect *your* "comfort level".  As I responded to Amanda - you should only remove something people with disabilities "rely on" when you can come up with a viable alternative.

We have a solution, people just never bothered thinking about the ramifications of removing it.  Be different, and realize there are more people in the world than just you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even sadder when people fall back on thinking it&#8217;s got anything to do with &#8220;comfort level&#8221; - but then again, this is such an able-bodied world problem.</p>
<p>Ironically, I bet my mode of transportation is far more environmentally friendly than your &#8220;level of comfort&#8221; on a daily basis.  I&#8217;m 100% electric - how much are you paying for gas today? <img src='http://moonwolfs-lair.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
It&#8217;s easy for you to say things are &#8220;important&#8221; when they won&#8217;t affect *your* &#8220;comfort level&#8221;.  As I responded to Amanda - you should only remove something people with disabilities &#8220;rely on&#8221; when you can come up with a viable alternative.</p>
<p>We have a solution, people just never bothered thinking about the ramifications of removing it.  Be different, and realize there are more people in the world than just you.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-120</guid>
		<description>So learn how not to rely on them.  This is such a first world problem.  Oh no, you won't have your plastic bags.  Be innovative and figure out another solution.  It's sad how little people care about something important when it impacts their comfort level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So learn how not to rely on them.  This is such a first world problem.  Oh no, you won&#8217;t have your plastic bags.  Be innovative and figure out another solution.  It&#8217;s sad how little people care about something important when it impacts their comfort level.</p>
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		<title>By: Moonwolf</title>
		<link>http://moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Moonwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Mar 2008 14:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Hi Amanda,

Thank you for visiting my site and commenting, especially since I named Envirobloggers in my entry, so a response "from there" is appreciated.

I'm very much in favor of environmentalism - my objections in *this* case are that no-one thought things through, as far as I can tell.  No-one has come up with an equally effective and available alternative for people who rely on them.  Some chains are now selling re-usable cloth bags (Giant, our local grocery chain, for example), but they are much more than the few cents plastic (or paper) bags cost the chains - costs passed on to "us".

The General Assembly has decided to vote on the ban, but they're not doing anything to offset that impact - because, to be honest, no-one realized it would *have* an impact.  That puts the burden of adaptation squarely on "us".  What will be an inconvenience for most risks becoming a very real barrier (no matter how "small") to "us", as we already have fewer resources available to "us" to adapt.  Someone with working legs can carry four or five plastic bags, or two paper bags - someone on a manual wheelchair can carry five or six plastic bags on the canes at the back of their chair - or *possibly* one paper bag in their laps, for example - they need both hands to move.

The question is - what's the solution, and who provides it?  Removing plastic bags is good for the environment, but if it places more of a burden on people with disabilities than will be felt by mainstream society, it's discriminatory - albeit inadvertently.  Does this mean stores should find a solution that's equally as useful and practical for us, as their customers (which increases prices, since they'll almost *certainly* pass the costs on)?  Should the legislature subsidize the stores in some way, or people with disabilities, since they're the ones trying to pass the law itself (which they'd never do because of "costs", or if they did they'd just tax everyone to pay for it)?

Did anyone actually consider these questions in regards to people with disabilities when the movement against plastic bags gathered steam?  I don't think anyone did, I think the only question asked was about how mainstream society would have to adapt.

We should be considered at some point when the inconveniences of environmental reforms are being assessed, if only to make sure that we bear equal responsibility, feel equal impact, and receive equal consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Amanda,</p>
<p>Thank you for visiting my site and commenting, especially since I named Envirobloggers in my entry, so a response &#8220;from there&#8221; is appreciated.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very much in favor of environmentalism - my objections in *this* case are that no-one thought things through, as far as I can tell.  No-one has come up with an equally effective and available alternative for people who rely on them.  Some chains are now selling re-usable cloth bags (Giant, our local grocery chain, for example), but they are much more than the few cents plastic (or paper) bags cost the chains - costs passed on to &#8220;us&#8221;.</p>
<p>The General Assembly has decided to vote on the ban, but they&#8217;re not doing anything to offset that impact - because, to be honest, no-one realized it would *have* an impact.  That puts the burden of adaptation squarely on &#8220;us&#8221;.  What will be an inconvenience for most risks becoming a very real barrier (no matter how &#8220;small&#8221;) to &#8220;us&#8221;, as we already have fewer resources available to &#8220;us&#8221; to adapt.  Someone with working legs can carry four or five plastic bags, or two paper bags - someone on a manual wheelchair can carry five or six plastic bags on the canes at the back of their chair - or *possibly* one paper bag in their laps, for example - they need both hands to move.</p>
<p>The question is - what&#8217;s the solution, and who provides it?  Removing plastic bags is good for the environment, but if it places more of a burden on people with disabilities than will be felt by mainstream society, it&#8217;s discriminatory - albeit inadvertently.  Does this mean stores should find a solution that&#8217;s equally as useful and practical for us, as their customers (which increases prices, since they&#8217;ll almost *certainly* pass the costs on)?  Should the legislature subsidize the stores in some way, or people with disabilities, since they&#8217;re the ones trying to pass the law itself (which they&#8217;d never do because of &#8220;costs&#8221;, or if they did they&#8217;d just tax everyone to pay for it)?</p>
<p>Did anyone actually consider these questions in regards to people with disabilities when the movement against plastic bags gathered steam?  I don&#8217;t think anyone did, I think the only question asked was about how mainstream society would have to adapt.</p>
<p>We should be considered at some point when the inconveniences of environmental reforms are being assessed, if only to make sure that we bear equal responsibility, feel equal impact, and receive equal consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moonwolfs-lair.com/2008/03/06/paper-plastic-or-intelligence/#comment-8</guid>
		<description>Hey, so, you know, banning plastic bags will be inconvenient for LOTS of people -- not just people with disabilities. It'll be inconvenient (to say the least) for people who can't afford canvas bags and for pretty much everyone who walks to and from the grocery store (we can't carry more than one or two paper bags either). But plastic bags are more than just "unsightly trash" -- they're a major contributer to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, a stew of plastic trash twice the size of Texas. Something's got to be done, and we're *all* going to have to adapt. I suspect that inexpensive reusable bags (like Ikea's, if you've seen them) are the wave of the future. In the meantime, you can always stock up on plastic bags and re-use them until they can't be used anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, so, you know, banning plastic bags will be inconvenient for LOTS of people &#8212; not just people with disabilities. It&#8217;ll be inconvenient (to say the least) for people who can&#8217;t afford canvas bags and for pretty much everyone who walks to and from the grocery store (we can&#8217;t carry more than one or two paper bags either). But plastic bags are more than just &#8220;unsightly trash&#8221; &#8212; they&#8217;re a major contributer to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, a stew of plastic trash twice the size of Texas. Something&#8217;s got to be done, and we&#8217;re *all* going to have to adapt. I suspect that inexpensive reusable bags (like Ikea&#8217;s, if you&#8217;ve seen them) are the wave of the future. In the meantime, you can always stock up on plastic bags and re-use them until they can&#8217;t be used anymore.</p>
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